Is the observer an aspect of the soul or a state of the mind?

Likewise Open! *drinks*

That's absolutely wonderful Sharlene - I observe a lot of people thinking they are in presence but are not. So going first via the observer, but then really 'softening into the experience' is crucial - a Vipassana will certainly help you do that.

I'm thrilled for you Sharlene

Open *OK*

PS - I'm planning a trip back to Aus in February (20th-28th) so maybe see you there.

I have been following this thread with interest, and would just like to share a few very special A-ha moments that have recently happend for me. While attending a vipassana mediataion for 10 days, i learnt to sit and observe the body, and it was explained that by objectively observing the bodys arising and passing sensations is observing feelings/yourself, as every feeling will make a sensation (put in a very very basic way)....I remember been incredibly overjoyed on about day 5 or 6 because all of a sudden all of Opens wonderful sayings like "just be awesomely ok with it"....and "be as nothing with it ".......and "just sit with it and don't need it to go away" suddenly became crystal clear to me. I had no idea it was so absolutely logical, and that to be the observer was really as literal as observing the body....I just loved that I finally understood it in an experiential way! Actually, even thinking about it now makes me feel so joyful.
For some reason, i dont know why xmas envokes feelings of lonliness and sadness, so today while i sat in meditation, i had been contemplating this and felt to become the observer by been
"awesomley ok" with these feelings and of course continue to oberserve the body...and then the magic of presence happened, only for the briefest of moments, but it was unmistakeably there.....and once again, all the wonderful words and articles here came to life, and once again, i understood....
Thank you Open.

Great to connect with you again at this time Apollonius.
Keep well my friend,

Open :-)

Your welcome Jenny! And also thanks to you and Open for your input and sharing of your experiences. Just by sharing I feel a lot of clarity can be gained and the pieces of the puzzle will slowly fall into place. At least for me. I recognize the wanting for the illusion to go away. Yes we want to move forward don't we? But we can not force it or exercise any control over it. But to me your posts are showing me a very authentic drive, a deep rooted will to move beyond the ego. That's as authentic as it can get and very inspiring to others. So I'm glad you posted even if you are not sure if it came out of wanting something. You at least show the processes that you're going through in full honesty and that's something I can learn something from having problems showing my struggling self and often instead project a 'perfect' spiritual self.

Namaste sister Jenny and brother Open. Feeling gratitude for this experience, connection and this forum in general!

Let's all drop one drop at a time into the endless sea of the Seer!

Hi Apollonius - thanks for joining us :-)

You said...

"I believe The seer can not be summoned by will; it will just happen when we stop resisting life."

I'm totally with you on that one. My first experiences of it in this incarnation just happened. I found I dropped into it as I followed the soul. There were times when I recognised I popped out, and no amount of efforting or intentioning would bring it back. But when I just let go, and allowed 'me' to be 'me', then suddenly I dropped into it again. Each time, it dawned on me that this state was 'home'. After that, there was simply absolute commitment to the path. What point being anywhere else?

You also said...

"But asking these questions I believe is very valuable and necessary because once we do understand these processes, spirituality loses its vagueness and becomes very tangible."

Absolutely! In fact, I observe the question alone - the question of the soul - is enough to unravel back into presence.

And you're absolutely right too - that many spiritual practices (certainly the ones I observe) mostly lead only to a state of denial - distancing from the challenges of daily life; instead of surrendering through daily life - which is where the soul is to be found.

Namaste brother

Open

Very interesting discussion! I personally haven't found the distinction between The observer and The seer but I can grasp what Open says about it. I practiced observing (so I intended it) and I have experienced 'observing' spontaneously also. The spontaneous ones came with a feeling of expansion and really not worrying about what transpires in this physical dimension. They often arrived when somehow I stopped fighting or resisting inside myself. I agree with you Jenny that there is lacking good info on these states in most spiritual teachings. A lot of the time they talk about simply not seeking or stopping the identification with the outer drama. But then people start forcing themselves not to identify or start placing themselves outside of daily reality. I believe The seer can not be summoned by will; it will just happen when we stop resisting life. And life consists of EXPERIENCES so we indeed have to go through these. I recognize the tendency to want the answers too quickly because I do that myself a lot of the time. I start thinking about it in the hope I can figure it all out that way. Leaving it open with trust mostly works best! But asking these questions I believe is very valuable and necessary because once we do understand these processes, spirituality loses its vagueness and becomes very tangible. Through our left brains we then translate what is happening so we can 'map' our journey and understand with our day-to-day consciousness what's going on. Being able to understand the process and to articulate it might also help us to let the small self know everything is okay and we're not going mad. Quite the contrary.

Yes indeed - I'd say that's spot on Cynthia.

I will be sitting with this for a while, but it seems to me that the explorations/questions that you have suggested are questions for the soul with answers that can not be found through the intellect but are unveiled. The sitting with experience vs seeking facts? It would seem then that soul answers are not actually totally definitive in the way this 3-d world likes answers, but are instead an understanding that becomes richer, evolves and deepens over time.

Thank you.

And on the question of questions:

I observe there's two different types of thought and two different types of question.

There's thought that lands simply and instantaneously as 'knowing'. It's like a an instant flash that appears as if from nowhere. I experience it as a Fifth Density experience.

In the beginning, these are not easy to spot. Because lower - Third Density - mind then owns the experience and starts to create chains of thought around them. Since Third Density thought is so dense and intense, in comparison to the lightness of the 5D, then the experience is effectively 'written over'. Imagine it like trying to experience the divine with a loud TV blaring in the background!

Then there are two types of question: there's the question from the lower egoic mind, trying to steal and own the show, trying to figure out how to do what it wants to do.

But then there's the questions of higher mind. Higher - Fifth Density - Mind is asking a question for exploration as a part of the co-creative weave that we're all a part of. It's these very questions that create the consensus reality we're having in the first place. The One is exploring an aspect of its nature through the consensus reality.

So for example, here are several explorations humanity is having right now:

- how to be consumed within the physical, yet still connected with the divine
- how to trust in the infinite benevolence of the divine
- how to work in harmony with all life
- how to be in the flow, yet amplify the flow for the benefit of all
- how not to be attached to the physical outcome

These are just a few of the questions that created our consensus reality. Your soul will be relating to these questions - to this creation. So sometimes a question will just simply arise, without you efforting to create it. You may start to recognise this as a question of the soul - a question of the consensus reality. When this happens, then you've touched a deep aspect of the flow, and it usually comes pretty instantly with the answer. The universe is conspiring to reveal it to you.

Open

Great exploration!

To me, the Observer begins as an intention to watch - so it is mostly an aspect of mind - of the ego mind.

But then the more you watch, the more you start to infuse into the experience - you're steadily becoming the soul through the experience.

The more you ride the soul through the experience, the more the ego softens, the more the inner convolutions of identity - the eddy currents in the flow - then unravel themselves.

As they do this, if you keep persisting, then you drop into the presence of the Seer. The Seer is absolute stillness, absolute emptiness, THROUGH the experience.

Open

In what dimension do thoughts/questions reside or are they multi-dimensional depending upon the content of the concept in question?